Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby ragnar » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:02 pm

Lets take a example. I have 20 barrels. In group A with 10 barrels I want to have stone. In group B also with 10 barrels I want to have only wood.
To do that I would need to click on one barrel in group A and set it to stone and than click button to copy ti to all other barrels and lock the barrel. And also go to other 9 barrels in group A and for every one of them click lock button. After that I go to barrel in group B and select wood and click the button for copy.

In other words, I still need to go right click every barrel in group A and lock it for it to work, and so i can have two different things in different barrel groups right?
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby YetiChow » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:19 pm

ragnar wrote:Lets take a example. I have 20 barrels. In group A with 10 barrels I want to have stone. In group B also with 10 barrels I want to have only wood.
To do that I would need to click on one barrel in group A and set it to stone and than click button to copy ti to all other barrels and lock the barrel. And also go to other 9 barrels in group A and for every one of them click lock button. After that I go to barrel in group B and select wood and click the button for copy.

In other words, I still need to go right click every barrel in group A and lock it for it to work, and so i can have two different things in different barrel groups right?


From what I understand, that's how it works - although there might have been a "lock all" option, I can't remember well... it looks like the system is geared to having the "disable all items by default" turned off, and then using the "share settings" function to unlock a given material across all barrels at once. That's great if all your barrels are in one place... not so great if you have your workshops separated and each one has barrels for its resources (e.g. your masonry is at one end of town with barrels for stone, while the carpentry is at the other end with barrels for wood and bones). Or in other words, it works well for small towns with one "workshop building" but not well for larger towns with different districts.

Personally, I think the system needs an "assign by area" option; not just a global setting. It could be that there's a second button beside "share to all" which has "share to group", and when you click that it gives you a selection cursor and any barrels you select will inherit that setting.

While I can see the logic behind the system as it stands, IMO mass-storage is like mass-anything-else: probably not the best way to do things in Towns. Or in other words, the system looks like it's designed to store large amounts of items at once... when the more effective/efficient strategy is to break up that hauling into segments so the hauling townies (and the game engine) aren't overworked. It's one area where the player can make some decisions and get things running more smoothly; the system should make that as easy as possible rather than making it easier to leave the storage decisions up to the townies.
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby NineInchWhales » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:34 am

I was just thinking that with a "lock all" option, one could build 5 barrels, set all barrels to wood only, then lock all barrels. Then one would build 5 more barrels, set all to stone only, then lock all barrels. So on and so fourth. It would probably be the easiest way to make the system work without the developers having to reinvent the current system.

It may be a bit difficult for newer players to figure out, and maybe even more difficult for an experienced player to abandon the desire to build a bunch of barrels right away. But there would be no more need to open the properties of every single barrel. It may also be easy to teach in a tutorial.
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby Haggy » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:58 pm

NineInchWhales wrote:I was just thinking that with a "lock all" option, one could build 5 barrels, set all barrels to wood only, then lock all barrels. Then one would build 5 more barrels, set all to stone only, then lock all barrels. So on and so fourth. It would probably be the easiest way to make the system work without the developers having to reinvent the current system.

It may be a bit difficult for newer players to figure out, and maybe even more difficult for an experienced player to abandon the desire to build a bunch of barrels right away. But there would be no more need to open the properties of every single barrel. It may also be easy to teach in a tutorial.


+1
Is a good idea.
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby YetiChow » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:24 am

NineInchWhales wrote:I was just thinking that with a "lock all" option, one could build 5 barrels, set all barrels to wood only, then lock all barrels. Then one would build 5 more barrels, set all to stone only, then lock all barrels. So on and so fourth. It would probably be the easiest way to make the system work without the developers having to reinvent the current system.

It may be a bit difficult for newer players to figure out, and maybe even more difficult for an experienced player to abandon the desire to build a bunch of barrels right away. But there would be no more need to open the properties of every single barrel. It may also be easy to teach in a tutorial.


I really like the way that idea implicitly works on "break it down into smaller steps" - I'd be happy enough with just that. As I said, I think it would be more intuitive to have "manage by area" functions, but I think the point we're all talking around is that the system still requires repetitive manual input on some level if we want to specify the contents of a group of containers.
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby ragnar » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:59 am

Haggy wrote:
NineInchWhales wrote:I was just thinking that with a "lock all" option, one could build 5 barrels, set all barrels to wood only, then lock all barrels. Then one would build 5 more barrels, set all to stone only, then lock all barrels. So on and so fourth. It would probably be the easiest way to make the system work without the developers having to reinvent the current system.

It may be a bit difficult for newer players to figure out, and maybe even more difficult for an experienced player to abandon the desire to build a bunch of barrels right away. But there would be no more need to open the properties of every single barrel. It may also be easy to teach in a tutorial.


+1
Is a good idea.

+2
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby Inquisitor80 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:36 pm

i think it would be good if you could put down stockpile zone, then put the barrels into that zone
the settings for the stockpile would be what the barrels are auto set for.

clean and simple

if you want 10 barrels for stone, you put down a stockpile for 10 squares of space, then set it to stone only. maybe flag for set barrels or something
then make the barrels, bango, 10 set barrels
as long as the barrels are on the stockpile zone they adjust to whatever the stockpile is set to
if they get moved off they should lock to whatever they where on last.

thus you could have an area set for making barrels, have them made and put into the stockpile zone. set them all for what you want, then you can move them
just another option

this can work for many areas or 1 huge area

whatcha think?
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby miljan02 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:00 pm

Inquisitor80 wrote:i think it would be good if you could put down stockpile zone, then put the barrels into that zone
the settings for the stockpile would be what the barrels are auto set for.

clean and simple

if you want 10 barrels for stone, you put down a stockpile for 10 squares of space, then set it to stone only. maybe flag for set barrels or something
then make the barrels, bango, 10 set barrels
as long as the barrels are on the stockpile zone they adjust to whatever the stockpile is set to
if they get moved off they should lock to whatever they where on last.

thus you could have an area set for making barrels, have them made and put into the stockpile zone. set them all for what you want, then you can move them
just another option

this can work for many areas or 1 huge area

whatcha think?

Hard to implement. Xavi probably knows about that suggestion, but i think it can not be implemented (or better said hard) because of how the game is codded.
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby YetiChow » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:05 am

miljan02 wrote:
Inquisitor80 wrote:i think it would be good if you could put down stockpile zone, then put the barrels into that zone
the settings for the stockpile would be what the barrels are auto set for.

clean and simple

if you want 10 barrels for stone, you put down a stockpile for 10 squares of space, then set it to stone only. maybe flag for set barrels or something
then make the barrels, bango, 10 set barrels
as long as the barrels are on the stockpile zone they adjust to whatever the stockpile is set to
if they get moved off they should lock to whatever they where on last.

thus you could have an area set for making barrels, have them made and put into the stockpile zone. set them all for what you want, then you can move them
just another option

this can work for many areas or 1 huge area

whatcha think?

Hard to implement. Xavi probably knows about that suggestion, but i think it can not be implemented (or better said hard) because of how the game is codded.


I think the bigger problem than just coding the function (although I agree, it may not be as simple as it may sound) would be that the barrels wouldn't be "locked" in place - even after going to the effort of setting up the stockpile and having the barrels constructed (remembering they'd have to be made through the left-hand menu rather than the right-hand one - in other words, the barrels themselves are being stored in the stockpile and then things are being stored into the barrels rather than ordering barrels to be built into the stockpile); if the player then orders a barrel to be built normally then the townies will prioritise using one of the barrels in the stockpile over making a new barrel. So that means the stone or whatever was filling it would have to be emptied out from its new position, a new barrel is stored in the stockpile, and then all that stone is carried back.

It would be simpler to implement a "storage zone" that the barrels are built onto... but really, the code and engine changes required for that probably wouldn't be worth it. The benefit of the system as it currently stands is that it works with all barrels on the map; that can be as much of a downside as a benefit but at least it's consistent. It takes some learning to use, but once you crack that, you can use it again and again to do whatever you need. Simplicity is nice of course, and it's a major priority; but consistency (at a fundamental/mechanical level) has to be the biggest/first priority in management games - in other words, while the system isn't advanced or easy to fine-tune, it would be utterly "broken" without at least having the base consistency that the global setting has.

Fortunately Xavi has already noted a couple of small improvements to come, hopefully those will make it much simpler to manage things in smaller chunks.
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Re: Towns v14e (5th v14 patch) has been released

Postby Haggy » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:13 pm

ragnar wrote:
Haggy wrote:
NineInchWhales wrote:I was just thinking that with a "lock all" option, one could build 5 barrels, set all barrels to wood only, then lock all barrels. Then one would build 5 more barrels, set all to stone only, then lock all barrels. So on and so fourth. It would probably be the easiest way to make the system work without the developers having to reinvent the current system.

It may be a bit difficult for newer players to figure out, and maybe even more difficult for an experienced player to abandon the desire to build a bunch of barrels right away. But there would be no more need to open the properties of every single barrel. It may also be easy to teach in a tutorial.


+1
Is a good idea.

+2


"Lock all" - Option. Need!
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