best laptop to get

[Colombo]

tom.k: that is... ignorance...

You can't comparison present Mac and give it credit that hold Mac in past. Conteporary mac isn't priorited by graphical designer. This is just plain wrong. As well as optimisation etc.

From your standpoint, one should than add, than general unix would behave mutch better than windows or even Mac. Your comparison of booting is silly, this is heavilly influenced by installed programs, that start on startup. With so mutch spiderite, that comes preinstalled with windows, booting is hella slower, than in cleaned computer, be it on Mac, Unix or Windows.

The major difference between system is between it's users.

On windows, most of us behave as pigs.
On Mac, you would probably not touching anything.
On Unix, you would be probably experienced user, that tries to make it clean, or you don't touch anything.

Yeah, Windows and unix-based systems are different. Mac is different only in optimalization for it's hardware, it doesn't have to solve major problem of most machines -- drivers (which even't from hardware developer is quite often buggy).

Other code optimalization of system (apart of inherent unix so strong bash) cause minor differences.

[tom k.]

No it's not really ignorance. A vast majority of professional graphic design companies (excluding CAD and other architecture companies) use macs because of the increased productivity. Macs ARE better with memory management, that is a fact. You cannot deny it because it is due to the way the systems run.

Macs load the code required for the application to run. Windows loads the whole dll. However, there are literally hundreds of unneeded DLLs in windows because it hasn't had a major refresh in years. It is only recently with recent .NET frameworks that Microsoft have altered the way assembly loading works in windows to try to reduce the overhead. .NET applications consume masses of ram and are very prone to memory leaks because the garbage collector is terrible!

My OSX install works far better than windows on non-mac, 3rd party hardware.

Booting is not "silly". I'm talking about fresh installs of both systems. You can't say "windows only loads slowly because it installs a ton of crap, but if you remove that crap it boots really fast" because that point is moot. You could just remove everything except explorer.exe and winlogon.exe and have a machine that boots in seconds but it would serve no purpose because it wouldn't damn work...

Also, I've touched everything on my mac to my knowledge. I dot think their are any preinstalled applications I haven't yet used and I have been everywhere in the system settings menu. On windows I would say I have less clutter because I only boot into it to play games. And Mac STILL runs faster...


Yes, a lot of this is down to preference, but after using windows for 12 years I have well and truly switched to mac in little over 5 months.

[YetiChow]

Windows = stupid, disorganised and cluttered coding but user friendly

Mac = simple, sensible, powerful coding but designed for functionability, not aesthetics or user-friendliness.

Anything else is just splitting hairs - all you need to know is this basic fact fi you want to work with either type. Windows PCs are exactly that - personal computers designed for everybody; which means they have to make things work in a way anyone can understand at the cost of efficiency. Macs are unconditionally faster, more efficient and better in all aspects of performance, but to be able to use one you have to properly understand computing; there's very little in the way of leeway for user error.

The other brands all fit somewhere in between on the scale, or take one aspect to the extreme.

I'm sick and tired of this debate popping up on every forum, blog, social media site or whatever that I visit - anybody who doesn't know these things already has no business trumpeting their opinions to the world, because they clearly don't have any of their own. I don't care which OS you think is best because they're completely incomparable - apples and oranges, chalk and cheese and all that. I'm sorry to rant, but the internet does not exist to debate the merits of Mac vs Windows. State which one you prefer if you like, and leave it at that - if you say you prefer one then it's going to be for the exact same reason everybody else who prefers that brand does; we don't need it to be repeated over and over again.

Wow, look at us getting all worked up over a discussion started by a spambot...

[Ulric]

Apple's main selling point for their computers and other devices is that they're simple, user-friendly, and aesthetically pleasing. Making a statement contrary to that and proclaiming it to be the unquestionable truth is rather dubious.

Workstation benchmarks have shown there to be very little difference performance-wise between Mac OS X and Windows 7. When you are working with high-end components such as i5s and SSDs the OS choice is far from being a bottleneck. While you can say certain tasks would be faster on one platform it needs to be understood that there also exists tasks that are faster on the other platform as well. Also it should be understood that some of these tasks only have a difference of a fraction of a percentage. The idea that Macs are faster at everything is just a marketing gimmick (a rather successful one at that.)

[YetiChow]

Apple's main selling point for their computers and other devices is that they're simple, user-friendly, and aesthetically pleasing. Making a statement contrary to that and proclaiming it to be the unquestionable truth is rather dubious.

Workstation benchmarks have shown there to be very little difference performance-wise between Mac OS X and Windows 7. When you are working with high-end components such as i5s and SSDs the OS choice is far from being a bottleneck. While you can say certain tasks would be faster on one platform it needs to be understood that there also exists tasks that are faster on the other platform as well. Also it should be understood that some of these tasks only have a difference of a fraction of a percentage. The idea that Macs are faster at everything is just a marketing gimmick (a rather successful one at that.)

Apple products look pleasing on the outside, and yes they are focussing on making them more user friendly, but the core idea behind Apple Macintosh was to give everyone who wanted a computer access to one, while the core idea behind Microsoft was to put a PC in every home. They sound the same, but in fact the two ideas have a key difference: Macs are designed for computer literate people who want a computer/gadget and have a plan for what they'll do with it (use it for work, entertainment, to store tons of music etc.), while Windows computers and other Microsoft products are designed more as something to have than as something to use. Of course both have moved towards the middle ground to appeal to a wider target market, but the key point of both remains hardcoded into their design and function. I don't disagree with anything you say, and I don't feel one is better than the other; it's just that everybody focusses on what you can actually do with a Mac or Windows PC right now, instead of the eventual intented use.

If people used the same logic in gaming, for example, Towns would have pages and pages of complaints that it's the worst game ever, and Minecraft wouldn't have even got off the ground. There's no point comparing Apple and Microsoft products because they're designed do different things, even if in the end they're both used to do the same thing.

[darkcraftia]

@tom for linux if you have wine installed you can get all window games working but fps lagg is horrible xD playing SPAZ on the tech level 60 is just insane withe the fps

[tom k.]

Wine doesn't solve everything, some things simply don't work

[darkcraftia]

Wine doesn't solve everything, some things simply don't work

True. doesnt work for tf2 since the game engine part would crash but now that its fixed for me on windows the game just crashes on start up.

[Colombo]

Well, source engine is being ported to unix anyway...

[darkcraftia]

Well, source engine is being ported to unix anyway...

I already know this part. I got Source SDK working for me. Lagg at first but its good.